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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Liz |
| Date: | Friday, 10th Oct 2008 14:43 |
| Views: | 115 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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If I've done some research and know where a vacancy is, then it only takes one call.
However, if after researching (leads from candidates, looking in paper etc) nothing turns up and you're just calling clients to spec in a candidate, then it varies.
Some days you get lucky and get a job on the first call. Sometimes you can call all day and not much is going on. However, usually one of those called does come back within the next month or so with a job. So if you call regularly you get a nice cycle of jobs in. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Matt |
| Date: | Friday, 10th Oct 2008 15:32 |
| Views: | 115 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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Try to focus more on the quality of each call as opposed to the quantity. I know is is a cliche, but I would rather have somebody working for me who made 5 quality calls a day, than someone who bashed 100 "have you got any vacancies?"
Ultimately you want to find a qualified job to work on although this is not always going to be the case so set yourself targets with each call, for example - discover who the decision maker is / last time they recruited / how they went about recruiting / team size etc....
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Dean |
| Date: | Friday, 10th Oct 2008 15:38 |
| Views: | 117 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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Mitch, someone saying "send me a CV" is not a buying signal at all. If the client is serious about it then they will discuss what they are looking for at length and you wil be able to qualify whether it is a live/real requirement or not. If they are prepared to do this, then and only then is it a buying signal. If they are not prepared to spend 5 mins going through the role with you then all they are doing is politely saying "piss off". |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Dean |
| Date: | Friday, 10th Oct 2008 16:12 |
| Views: | 134 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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Mitch, if you are getting nowhere and someone says "send me a CV" it doesn't open up new areas of discussion at all; you're getting nowhere. They are saying that to get you off the phone, plain and simple. The whole premise of "send me a CV" in that context is as an objection, not a door opener.
However, it's how you get around the objection that matters. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Mubin |
| Date: | Friday, 10th Oct 2008 16:16 |
| Views: | 119 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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Dean & Mitch,
You both are right.
Sometimes a client says send me a cv and it means get off the phone. This is usually followed by them giving you the email hr@, info@ or enquries@ email address.
If you are talking to them about a candidate and they have requested a cv and give you a real email address it is definitely someone interested in seeing CV's.
So stop arguing about things when you both know that you are in teh right. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Dean |
| Date: | Friday, 10th Oct 2008 16:23 |
| Views: | 136 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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Mubin: re. "If you are talking to them about a candidate and they have requested a cv and give you a real email address it is definitely someone interested in seeing CV's."
Yes, but that's in a completely different context and not the context Claire (the original poster) intended (i think).
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Claire |
| Date: | Friday, 10th Oct 2008 16:29 |
| Views: | 124 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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When a client says to me send me a CV, and I have their correct email (as dean says). then I classify this as a vacancy I can work on.
as once i forward them the cv's i can call back to try and arrange a interview...
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Liz |
| Date: | Friday, 10th Oct 2008 18:49 |
| Views: | 129 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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If a client asks me to send a CV, I want to know it's for a specific job. When I worked at a big agency every consultant would grab onto that and pretend it was a job.
It's not!
If a company doesn't take the time to discuss their requirements with you, then they're not buying into you, so you won't have control and you're unlikely to fill the job with the right person.
It IS usually a fob off.
If they talk about a role, then you talk about the candidate and they like the sound of them and want their CV, then send it.
If not, why waste your time sending over a CV for a job that isn't there?!?! Are we that desperate for numbers?
If you call 10 clients who all say 'send the CV' you spend 10 minutes sending out CV's. 10 minutes that could be spent on a high quality call potentially getting a real job.
I say to those fob offs "with all due respect, unless you are actively recruiting now or planning to do so in the future, I don't want to waste anybody's time." I think that makes most clients appreciate that you're not one of the vast numbers of mindless consultants simply trying to hit a CV send out target.
Mitch I'm sure knows the difference between someone genuinely wanting to receive a CV and someone trying to get you off the phone. I suspect however that he is being intentionally antagonistic because HR is quite boring and he wishes that he could cut it in sales. I would take any advice from him with a vat of salt Claire.
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Mitch |
| Date: | Tuesday, 14th Oct 2008 09:30 |
| Views: | 112 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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Liz, thanks for reconfirming the stereotype that contingency recruiters are just glorified telesales people that don't really know much about selling.
A buying signal is not literally a desire on the part of the customer to buy. It is an opportunity to turn an otherwise failing sales call around. Practically every company you ever call has a need, the difference is whether you have the skill to identify that and engage the other person into a meaningful dialogue about filling jobs. Getting a company to the point where you can actually call them 'a client' with any validity takes time and is never achieved in one phone call. Ever. A company that gives you a shot at a vacancy is not 'a client' in most people's general definition of the term.
I don't expect you to fully understand this though, obviously.
As for 'cutting it in sales', I worked in agencies for many years, at consultant and management level, all of them very successfully. I also successfully started and ran my own search business in a country where English was not the native language. Whilst this may pale into insignificance compared to your towering achievements, it does show that I can, and have, 'cut it' in sales.
Also, I don't work in HR. What I do is help companies build their own candidate attraction strategies, minimise their agency usage and ensure that those they do work with are competent and can deliver when necessary. This requires real and intelligent selling rather than random cold calling. Again, those are concepts I wouldn't expect you to fully comprehend.
Hope you have a great day on the phones.
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Liz |
| Date: | Tuesday, 14th Oct 2008 11:07 |
| Views: | 106 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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Mitch some contingency recruiters might well be just glorified telesales people that don't really know much about selling. However, there are bad people all in all jobs. It's unfair to tar everyone with the same brush.
Plenty of us on here are contingency recruiters and have many loyal clients. Plenty of us on here probably make very few sales calls in fact, because our clients come to us and I'm sure our clients would disagree with your interpretation of us.
Not every company has a need all the time. Especially if you specialise. There are only so many people in accounts or IT. Companies cannot magic up positions for you.
You criticise contingency recruiters and liken us to telesales people and in the next breath advocate turning every call into a sales call; what a contradiction. I see each call as an opportunity to develop a relationship. not to give the hard sell and jump on everything someone says. Once I know enough about a client I am able to work with them to determine their needs and I am pretty sure that others here work in the same way. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Dean |
| Date: | Tuesday, 14th Oct 2008 11:22 |
| Views: | 118 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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Quote Mitch "What I do is help companies build their own candidate attraction strategies, minimise their agency usage and ensure that those they do work with are competent and can deliver when necessary."
OK, so Mitch has his own agenda and it is in his interest to discredit agencies and recruiters, and in so doing is trying to increase his own value proposition.
Re. buying signal: A buying signal is genreally a request from your 'prospective' client for more information. HOWEVER this needs to be taken in context and you have to listen and watch the visual and audial cues that go along with it. In the context it is generally used is is used as a fob off. If they were genuinely serious they would be quite happy to continue the discuss and in that context there is a verbal cure and it is backed up by action from the prospective client i.e. the willingness to discuss in more detail.
I have to laugh, "real intelligent selling rather than random cold calling"...
So, is discovering leads and calling those prospects random?
Is researching the marketplace and discovering which companies employ/hire the skills you specialise in random?
Getting the yellow pages out and cold calling is random. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Mitch |
| Date: | Wednesday, 15th Oct 2008 10:31 |
| Views: | 106 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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Dean, I don't have any agenda and have never used this forum to tout for business, nor would I, ever.
I agree broadly with your comments about buying signals and accept my use of the word 'random' was irresponsible.
As for discrediting contingency recruiters ...I think just a cursory glance at some of the comments from some of the posters on this forum generally will show that contingency recruiters do that very well themselves.
I deal with these types of people every day and very, very few of them ever have anything intelligent or original to say about recruitment or the market they serve.
I'm sorry if you see that as an attack ...it isn't, it's just an honest appraisal of what I see. And to be fair, someone like me is in a better position to make that comment than the recruiters themselves.
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Dean |
| Date: | Wednesday, 15th Oct 2008 11:44 |
| Views: | 135 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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Mitch, I generally agree with what you say about contingency recruiters, however we can't completely generalise because there are good ones out there. Sure, there are the ones that approach recruitment like telesales. However there are the more experienced ones that actually approach recruitment from a solution sales perspective.
If that's an honest appraisal of what you see, then you are not dealing with the right recruiters. Than again, probably the really good recruiters wouldn't want to deal with organisations that need to get third parties involved in their recruitment anyway becaue they are used to dealing directly with the company Directors. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Mitch |
| Date: | Wednesday, 15th Oct 2008 11:48 |
| Views: | 119 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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I agree Dean that there are some good recruiters out there and I do deal with some of them ...but they only account for about 20% in my experience, so I think generalising is fair.
A good internal recruiter would never stop recruiters having access to line managers and directors. Never. That's the sort of dumb @!#$ HR people do. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Dean |
| Date: | Wednesday, 15th Oct 2008 11:54 |
| Views: | 112 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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Re. "A good internal recruiter would never stop recruiters having access to line managers and directors. Never. That's the sort of dumb @!#$ HR people do."
It's also what the RPO's do which is the reason I refuse point blank to deal with those organisations that go down that route. Consequently the RPO's only get the crap telesales recruiters that haven't a clue what they are doing. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Paul |
| Date: | Wednesday, 15th Oct 2008 12:26 |
| Views: | 142 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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"It's also what the RPO's do which is the reason I refuse point blank to deal with those organisations that go down that route. Consequently the RPO's only get the crap telesales recruiters that haven't a clue what they are doing."
A bit unfair to generalise - I work for an RPO and I am not a crap telesales recruiter!! We use a direct search methodology, headhunting candidates for an organisation that they certainly wouldn't get via a contingency recruiter and would pau 3x more for an Executive Search consultant. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Paul |
| Date: | Wednesday, 15th Oct 2008 13:36 |
| Views: | 125 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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Yeah thats right Dean, I never have to sell to candidates to join my client or vice-versa. Qualified CV's magically appear from thin air, 100% bought into my client, they come in for interview and the HM hires every single one even when there is no signed off vacancy.
Read my original post - I don't work for one of the RPO's that work on a low profit / high volume model. My company adheres to a strict direct search policy - I work with Hiring Managers to understand their needs, and then 90% of the time I am actively going out and identifying and approaching candidates directly from competitors or researched organisations.
Just because I don't have to do 100 "have you got any vacancies" calls per day, doesn't mean I don't sell. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Paul |
| Date: | Wednesday, 15th Oct 2008 14:06 |
| Views: | 120 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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Dean - you are so witty, I am falling off my chair here.
Yes, that's right I am glorified Resourcer, although apart from having to make new business calls day in and day out, just to meet your KPI's. How does my job differ from yours?
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Dean |
| Date: | Wednesday, 15th Oct 2008 14:14 |
| Views: | 160 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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Paul, anybody can do what you do. It is not difficult that is why it is the job given to recruiters that are new to the industry. The ones that can't cut it in recruitment are the ones that go in-house or with an RPO.
New business development separates the men from the boys. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Dean |
| Date: | Wednesday, 15th Oct 2008 14:24 |
| Views: | 122 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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Paul, no I am not a current, nor am I am ex employee from the S3 group. I actually don't think very highly of them.
It doesn't really matter what firm you or anybody else works for, someone within your company must initiate contact with a new prospective client. Otherwise you wouldn't have a job baby-sitting your client. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Paul |
| Date: | Wednesday, 15th Oct 2008 14:31 |
| Views: | 127 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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At least we agree on something :-)
We have a small new business sales team selling the proposition, although it is not something that you can sell over the phone and can be quite a complex sales cycle. The majority of our current clients have been won via referrals, contacts within the industry etc.
Oh, and I prefer the term Account Managing!! |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Mitch |
| Date: | Thursday, 16th Oct 2008 16:13 |
| Views: | 120 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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Dean, your comment about internal recruiters being order fillers is utter b*llocks.
Being an effective internal recruiter requires sublime sales skills and a much greater depth of understanding of job roles and candidate types.
The keyword there is 'effective'. Now ...I'm not arguing with you that most internal recruiters are somewhat weak, but the actual role itself, when done properly requires more intense version of all the skills needed in an agency environment.
Once again your confusing selling with cold calling. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Dean |
| Date: | Thursday, 16th Oct 2008 20:42 |
| Views: | 118 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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Mitch re. "your comment about internal recruiters being order fillers is utter b*llocks."
No it's not, that's exactly what they are.
re. "effective internal recruiter requires sublime sales skills and a much greater depth of understanding of job roles and candidate types."
What? Like HR? You've got to be joking, right?
re. "Once again your confusing selling with cold calling "
No, you're confusing cold calling with business development. Cold calling is only one aspect of business development and if done properly shouldn't be cold anyway. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Mitch |
| Date: | Friday, 17th Oct 2008 12:34 |
| Views: | 140 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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And business development is just one aspect of sales.
Dean, you need to remove yourself from this two-dimensional scenario where all you see in the world of recruitment is HR and job agencies.
I know it may help you get through each day, but it probably isn't doing much for your personal development.
Have a great weekend.
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: How Mnay Calls |
| Author: | Stephen |
| Date: | Monday, 20th Oct 2008 16:09 |
| Views: | 114 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=141775 |
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What a crazy post this is, Claire asked a simple question and opened a minefield.
The answer is quite simple as it is based on how many vacancies make a placement. So if your your efficiency ratio of placements to vacancy is 1 to 5 and you need 2 placements a week then you know you need 10 vacancies a week.
If your vacancies are of a poor quality ie commitment then your efficiencies are going to be worse and may be 1 in 10 so then you will need 20 vacancies, which would equate to 4 vacancies per day.
So the number of calls is almost irrelevant. You need to make the number of calls to achieve your targeted number of vacancies to achieve your targeted placements. I.E you do not go home till you have achieved 4 vacancies.
Regards
Stephen
www.recruitment-views.com
PS the more skilled you are the less calls you need to make! |
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