The purpose of the UK Recruiter discussion board
is to give recruiters the opportunity to discuss issues relating to their jobs
and the recruitment industry in the UK.
Whilst providers of goods and services to the
industry are welcome to partake in the discussions they should not use this
forum for advertising.
Please read and adhere to the board's guidelines which you will see when you click to "start new topic"
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Why don't all job boards do NORAS |
| Author: | Tim Elkington |
| Date: | Tuesday, 15th Aug 2006 17:02 |
| Views: | 368 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Job Boards | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2696 |
|
Hi Dave - I think you're confusing NORAS (the National Online Recruitment Audience Survey - www.noras.co.uk) with NORA (the National Online Recruitment Awards - www.alljobsuk.com), I can't comment on the state of NORA, but NORAS is fit and healthy!
Eric - we're currently working on the next wave of NORAS, that will be published in Jan 2007, and should be able to publish a list of sites that are taking part in early September. The cost of NORAS varies depending on the size of the job board and starts from about £5,800 (including 2 x ABC ELECTRONIC audits).
thanks
Tim.
Enhance Media / NORAS |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Why don't all job boards do NORAS |
| Author: | deadcatbounce |
| Date: | Wednesday, 16th Aug 2006 09:08 |
| Views: | 346 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Job Boards | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2696 |
|
Hi Tim
Going back to the original question - why do you think more job boards don't participate in the survey? If it is only a dozen or so it doesn't seem to very extensive and the cost doesn't seem too high... |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Why don't all job boards do NORAS |
| Author: | Stephen O'Donnell |
| Date: | Wednesday, 16th Aug 2006 11:16 |
| Views: | 337 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Job Boards | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2696 |
|
Hi Dave. I'd just like to report that the National Oline Recruitment Awards (NORA's) are fit and healthy, and have so far recieved over 4,400 nominations for recruitment websites in the past 3 weeks. This is the 6th year of the awards, and the competition gets more fierce each year. The NORA's help to recognise the highest standards in the UK online recruitment sector, from a candidate's perspective.
With regard to dead links. We are constantly monitoring tens of thousands of sites of job boards, agencies, employers, and providers of recruitmet advice. We ask that any broken or dead links found, are reported s that they may be attended to immediately.
** moderator note **
This thread has been copied and a separate thread started on the topic of NORA's at http://ukrecruiter.willco.com/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751
This is to keep the orginal thread on the topic of NORAS. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Why don't all job boards do NORAS |
| Author: | Tim Elkington |
| Date: | Wednesday, 16th Aug 2006 17:21 |
| Views: | 357 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Job Boards | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2696 |
|
Good point. NORAS is all about transparency and providing objective and independent information to advertisers – currently this is done by offering information on the quantity of the site’s audience (through the ABC ELECTRONIC audit) and the quality of the site’s audience (through a demographic survey of the site’s users). There’s a variety of reasons why some sites don't want to make the investment to provide this information, including: they don’t think it’s the right type of information, they don’t want to be that transparent or they think their clients and potential clients aren’t interested in the data.
From a wider perspective, the online recruitment industry is still relatively young and it takes time for industries to develop to the point where both buyers and sellers demand objective data to help make advertising decisions.
As I’m sure you can imagine Enhance Media and ABC ELECTRONIC are working hard to try to increase the number of sites involved, if you’d like to see more sites in NORAS then the best thing to do is to let those sites know that you’d be interested in seeing their data – this would encourage them to sign up - on the other hand if you think we haven't got it right yet and you've got ideas about how we can develop NORAS then please email me.
thanks
Tim.
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Why don't all job boards do NORAS |
| Author: | Tony Restell |
| Date: | Wednesday, 16th Aug 2006 17:32 |
| Views: | 354 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Job Boards | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2696 |
|
I can think of one very good reason why job boards don't all want to participate - being in NORAS divulges all sorts of competitive information about a jobs board that a market leader would not want potential competitors to get their hands on. As the market leaders in the Management Consultancy sector, we certainly don't want our competitors knowing how we generate visitors to our site, what the demographics of the site are, etc. This data is very sensitive, though we do ourselves enjoy looking at all the data of other job boards to identify any strategies they're employing that we ought to be looking at ourselves.
What I would love to see (Tim / NORAS please take heed) is an organisation undertaking an independent survey of the clients of various jobs boards. We'd love to be able to provide potential clients with independently collected testimonials from clients of our site. This would provide recruiters with the reassurances they need to feel confident trying out new job boards, whilst not providing our competitors with data that they can use to attack our market position.
Hope this helps put things into perspective.
Tony Restell - co-founder, www.Top-Consultant.com
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Why don't all job boards do NORAS |
| Author: | eddy_jones |
| Date: | Monday, 21st Aug 2006 13:06 |
| Views: | 740 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Job Boards | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2696 |
|
Hi Tony,
I believe that as the market matures advertisers will insist that sites provide audited information. The idea of 'hiding' data or being economical with the truth will no longer be acceptable to advertisers.
I quote from a recent US article....
A group of big-spending advertisers will insist on audited ratings from their online media from mid-2007 and measurement certified numbers by 2008, the Interactive Advertising Bureau (IAB) announced yesterday.
Companies including BMW, Colgate-Palmolive, Ford Motor Company, HP, ING, Kimberly-Clark, Pepsi and Visa say they will only pay for online ads on the basis of audited and certified numbers.
The move follows a number of recent statistics showing a huge shift in ad spend towards online. ‘As more and more dollars migrate over to Interactive, it is imperative as an industry that we continue to strive for the highest levels of transparency and validity’ says Greg Stuart, CEO of the IAB.
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Why don't all job boards do NORAS |
| Author: | Tony Restell |
| Date: | Monday, 21st Aug 2006 14:05 |
| Views: | 370 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Job Boards | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2696 |
|
Eddy - I agree 100% for consumer advertising where companies are shifting their budgets from TV advertising to online and where decisions about advertising are being based on how many 1000s of people will see the advert on any given site. But that's consumer marketing that targets sizeable audiences. Car manufacturers need to know their ads are reaching millions of potential buyers so that TV ad slots can be cancelled without risk.
Job boards are completely different. Most recruiters would much rather have 10 really great shortlist candidates than 500 poor quality candidates. We could very easily spend some extra money on advertising our site such that the number of overseas candidates visiting the site would dramatically increase. Our auditted numbers would go up but the number of hires being generated from our site would not rise - and advertisers would have a lot more CVs to screen and therefore costs associated with using our site.
So I disagree in that I don't think this will (or should) come to the online recruitment space - and certainly not to niche sites. Our clients would much rather we reached a targeted niche of highly suitable candidates than get the site as large a readership as possible (which is what auditted figures would inevitably lead to). The idea that anyone making placements from advertising on our site would leave because we didn't get our traffic figures auditted I simply do not buy.
If you're getting great shortlists and making placements from a site then their site stats are simply not the key determinant in the advertising decision. Rgds, Tony |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Why don't all job boards do NORAS |
| Author: | dom sumners |
| Date: | Monday, 21st Aug 2006 16:02 |
| Views: | 630 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Job Boards | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2696 |
|
Sorry Tony i cannot see any downside in a good jobboard auditing its data. Clients are increasingly demanding independent verification of a websites claims and this trend will continue as our industry matures further.
I agree with you entirely its not about big numbers - its about relevancy and quality but audits can show that too.
Regards
Dom |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Why don't all job boards do NORAS |
| Author: | Tony Restell |
| Date: | Tuesday, 22nd Aug 2006 11:38 |
| Views: | 370 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Job Boards | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2696 |
|
Dom - permit me a little analogy if you would. How would a recruitment agency feel about having an audit conducted, at the end of which every one of their competitors could see how they generated candidates for their clients, how many placements each of their consultants made, how much the recruitment agency spent on advertising, where they advertised and with what results, what salaries they paid their recruitment staff....
I could imagine a recruitment agency wouldn't feel too thrilled about this. It would hand competitors all the information they needed to hire the firm's best staff and to copy their candidate sourcing strategies. And none of your clients are going to leave you for not undertaking such an audit, provided you're making some good placements for them.
A job board audit such as NORAS is the equivalent of going down this route for a job board. If we're providing good results for clients then there's no need to disclose all this sensitive data. And if we're not providing good results for clients then no amount of auditting of traffic figures is going to overcome this fact.
Hope this makes my reasoning seem more reasonable.
Rgds, Tony Restell (Top-Consultant.com) |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Why don't all job boards do NORAS |
| Author: | Tim Elkington |
| Date: | Tuesday, 22nd Aug 2006 12:07 |
| Views: | 358 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Job Boards | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2696 |
|
Hi Tony – sorry, but your analogy is just plain inaccurate, NORAS is not the job board equivalent of “a recruitment agency…having an audit conducted, at the end of which every one of their competitors could see how they generated candidates for their clients, how many placements each of their consultants made, how much the recruitment agency spent on advertising, where they advertised and with what results, what salaries they paid their recruitment staff....”.
There is no information in NORAS about what job boards spend on advertising, where they advertised or what they pay their staff!
NORAS gives job board owners information that they can use when they’re telling potential clients about the users of their sites. It’s a valuable part of the sales story that sales teams can use to convey the benefits of advertising on their sites (along with the site’s functionality, marketing plans, registered user info, testimonials, case studies etc). Yes, existing clients might already know about the service a site can offer, but as Dom says, providing audited information to potential clients is an increasingly useful way of persuading them to advertise.
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Why don't all job boards do NORAS |
| Author: | Tony Restell |
| Date: | Tuesday, 22nd Aug 2006 13:20 |
| Views: | 352 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Job Boards | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2696 |
|
Tim - I didn't say that NORAS provides any of this information about job boards, my analogy was that a recruitment agency business would not want its competitors to be given sensitive information about their businesses. And the information you give away about jobs boards IS very sensitive. For our competitors to be told how we generate traffic (which you do give away) and the breakdown of our site readership (which you do give away) for us is the equivalent of a recruitment agency disclosing where they source all their candidates and which of their employees a competitor should poach. It's highly sensitive - and just the sort of information a competitor thinking of entering our space would want to know.
Tony |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Why don't all job boards do NORAS |
| Author: | Andrew Gordon |
| Date: | Wednesday, 23rd Aug 2006 09:39 |
| Views: | 351 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Job Boards | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2696 |
|
As a jobs board that has participated in NORAS from the beginning, we're completely comfortable with an independent audit of our user figures AND effectiveness. Indeed, in addition to NORAS/ABCE we've been conducting effectiveness surveys with our customers for some time (the data is freely available on our site).
We would be very keen to see this sort of effort become the norm within the jobs board industry. We'd also happily work with any independent body that attempted to measure our effectiveness.
However, one issue we find is that often it's our customers - both commercial and public sector - who have difficulty in monitoring how efective we and other jobs boards are!
Many recruiting organisations we deal with have either poor or non-existent systems in place to track where candidates have come from.
It's obviously easier for a small organisation, with a limited recruitment advertising budget, to monitor where they sourced a candidate. But it always bemuses me when I ask recruiters in larger organisations which is the most effective jobs board or newspaper they use and they shrug their shoulders and explain that they've never really analysed the data or, in fact, that it's not even collected at all!
I assume that this is not just the case in our marketplace? Because if it is, then I'm reminded of Wanamaker's phrase that, “Half my (recruitment) advertising is wasted, I just don’t know which half.”
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Why don't all job boards do NORAS |
| Author: | Gary Hodes |
| Date: | Wednesday, 23rd Aug 2006 11:48 |
| Views: | 337 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Job Boards | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2696 |
|
Just has been a very interesting debate.
We're a niche site and we don't participate because it's relatively expensive for us - and because we have found over our five years of existence that the only thing that matters so far as clients are concerned, is our effectiveness - and the only reliable source seems to be word-of-mouth.
It doesn't matter what we say, or what data we produce, it's not until companies hear from a trusted, personal source that our site works, that they will start using us.
The same applies to jobseekers; we stopped advertising years ago, but 200+ new people still register every week.
Interestingly, this was always our concept - and indeed, our site is named 'grapevinejobs'........ |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
Please note: The reply form is not showing because the posting is older than six months or the thread is locked. Please start a new topic or contact the forum administrator.
|
| -->
|
|
