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| National Online Recruitment Awards |
| Author: | Louise Triance - moderator |
| Date: | Wednesday, 16th Aug 2006 12:56 |
| Views: | 1,413 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751 |
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This thread has been split out from a discussion on NORAS at http://ukrecruiter.willco.com/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2696.
For clarification NORAS are the National Online Recruitment Audience Survey - www.noras.co.uk and NORA's are the National Online Recruitment Awards (www.alljobsuk.com)
Posting from Stephen O'Donnell at stephen@alljobsuk.com
Hi Dave. I'd just like to report that the National Online Recruitment Awards (NORA's) are fit and healthy, and have so far recieved over 4,400 nominations for recruitment websites in the past 3 weeks. This is the 6th year of the awards, and the competition gets more fierce each year. The NORA's help to recognise the highest standards in the UK online recruitment sector, from a candidate's perspective.
With regard to dead links. We are constantly monitoring tens of thousands of sites of job boards, agencies, employers, and providers of recruitmet advice. We ask that any broken or dead links found, are reported s that they may be attended to immediately. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: National Online Recruitment Awards |
| Author: | Disappointed in Alljobs |
| Date: | Wednesday, 16th Aug 2006 12:57 |
| Views: | 262 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751 |
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Stephen
Re your Alljobs site. I did a fairly detailed search on it recently, and after searching through say SE, SW, NE, Yorkshire, Scotland etc, there are literally hundreds of web links that don't work and so I simply refuse to personally tell YOU which ones don't work. Is that not YOUR job? He who add's the links should service those links no? If I added site content to my web address I don't reply on others to tell me what's not working!
Also its the same recruiters that seem to pop up for all regions, and so I'd very much dispute the figures you quote on your site.
A recruiters say that services the UK, on your board appears under every region and so 1 recruiter in real life = 12 on your site and so your site numbers are enhanced each time an agency is duplicated under each region.
Your site seems to address a purpose but for facts figures and functionality I'd give you one star for trying myself.
Needs seriously cleansed in my opinion. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: National Online Recruitment Awards |
| Author: | Josh |
| Date: | Wednesday, 16th Aug 2006 12:58 |
| Views: | 230 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751 |
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Have to agree with "Disappointed in Alljobs", also there must be a better way of judging the best job site, than having the job sites spam every one on their database, with their plea to vote for me! I have received several from JustEngineers and Im not even a candidate, so god knows how they have got my email.
Stop Enough Already! |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: National Online Recruitment Awards |
| Author: | Craig Bines |
| Date: | Wednesday, 16th Aug 2006 13:32 |
| Views: | 264 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751 |
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Josh,
If you would like to contact myself direct at Craig@jobsgroup.net i will be happy to tell you how you have you have been subscribed to our opt in mailing list.
On all our email communications we give the option to also opt out at any time check the bottom of the email for this option.
Best Regards
Craig Bines
Sales & Marketing Director
Jobsgroup.net |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: National Online Recruitment Awards |
| Author: | Stephen O'Donnell |
| Date: | Wednesday, 16th Aug 2006 13:40 |
| Views: | 235 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751 |
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I agree that our database needs regular cleansing. All agencies have their own login details, which enable them to edit and update their information. Whenever they have a new website, for example.
Regarding searching for agencies. Searching for a recruitment firm in a particular region will return all agencies who state that they recruit for that region, whether the have an office there or not. It's quite common for a specialist agency to cover one discipline for the whole of the UK.
However searching for an agency in a particular town or city will return only those who are actually based in, or near, that city. This is stated on the search page.
I appreciate the feedback.
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: National Online Recruitment Awards |
| Author: | Dan |
| Date: | Wednesday, 23rd Aug 2006 10:02 |
| Views: | 242 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751 |
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I am a judge for the NORAs and would just like to make clear that the "vote for me!" mails simply get the sites nominated. Those nominated are shortlisted and a panel, including myself, then makes a combined decision on which site should win in each category. The standard of the the shortlisted boards is very high and the winners are always a tough pick from a very good bunch.
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: National Online Recruitment Awards |
| Author: | RichC |
| Date: | Wednesday, 23rd Aug 2006 11:37 |
| Views: | 231 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751 |
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Hi Dan & Stephen,
Our generalist job board http://www.redgoldfish.co.uk has up to 500,000 job seeker visits in any one month and yet has never been included in the selection process to be even nominated for a NORA.
A volume of our users have perhaps not seen or heard of the NORA award, i now realise that based on Craigs post that the way to get nominated to enter for an award is to spam email our job seeker data base (something we wouldnt do) to ensure we get enough votes to be included!!!
Meanwhile, we wish you well with your site and your awards process but the nomination process that starts this off does look a little shakey based on the above posts and i would add that it does look like the usual suspects year in year out that get nominated/win the awards anyway!. ie best regional job site s1jobs, s1jobs, s1jobs.....
As a side issue (not trying to teach granny to suck eggs) if you are having problems with broken links on your site visit a validation site like http://validator.w3.org/ and use the broken links checker to clean up / remove the site links that dont work - Hope this helps.
Rich |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: National Online Recruitment Awards |
| Author: | Craig Bines |
| Date: | Wednesday, 23rd Aug 2006 12:11 |
| Views: | 249 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751 |
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Rich,
JobsGroup.net never spam! Infact we are the only job board to have the W-Mark from the Institute of Quality Assurance.
When the time comes for NORA nominations we simply put our sites and email communications a small link for our members to support us - the same as we do when we sponsor awards. I'm sure you use email communication to your membership to disseminate improvements to functionality on your site and will promote clients in electronic communication - we are simply asking for voluntary support.
Last year the same marketing plan was implemented as the year before and Hitwise showed that we had been the second largest referrer to the AllJobsUK nomination page yet still we did not get nominated. In March 2006 JustEngineers.net won the Recruiter Award for Excellence 'Best Online Service'
Craig |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: National Online Recruitment Awards |
| Author: | Stephen |
| Date: | Wednesday, 23rd Aug 2006 12:18 |
| Views: | 231 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751 |
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Hi Rich. The National Online Recruitment Awards are open to all recruitment websites in the UK, and anyone can nominate a site. The volume of nominations is valuable, but the feedback from candidates is more important in getting a site onto the shortlist of Finalists in each category.
There's no need to email your candidates, but some sites do display a link, through which satisfied candidates can come to nominate them.
With regard to the "usual suspects" I would say that the NORA's do accurately reflect the very best available jobsites in the UK, and these sites work very hard to retain that status. Some categories are much more competitive than others. In the past few years, there just hasn't been stronger contenders for the "Best Regional Jobsite" award than S1Jobs. Moreover, in my opinion S1Jobs is as good as any recruitment site I have seen, in any category, in the past 6 years.
If I were setting up a new generalist site, I would say that there are several regions in England that would welcome a top class regional recruitment website. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: National Online Recruitment Awards |
| Author: | interested |
| Date: | Wednesday, 23rd Aug 2006 13:31 |
| Views: | 265 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751 |
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Who else is on the judging panel? now surely Dan is in a position to be influenced due to his current role as m.d of the largest multi poster in the uk and his contacts at the job boards? and what do you benchmark the sites on?
Industry penetration, range of jobs or clients, navigation, candidate services? being open and honest is the best way to ad value to your award.
interested to know more surley an outside party with no connections in the online recruitment industry would be better suited to audit the sites based on the benchmarks you are using? |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: National Online Recruitment Awards |
| Author: | Stephen |
| Date: | Wednesday, 23rd Aug 2006 15:15 |
| Views: | 244 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751 |
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The entire awards process for the NORA's is very transparent, and deliberately un-scientific. This is because the Finalist sites are judged from a candidate's perspective. For example a candidate normally has no knowledge of advertising costs on a site, and the value for money (or otherwise) it represents for the advertisers. The judging panel are deliberately chosen as individuals who are have established a degree of credibility in the UK recruitment sector, but are not directly involved in the running of any sites that are being assessed.
I welcome scrutiny, and I believe that the credibility of the panels in the past 6 years speaks for itself, and cannot be impugned. I am ultimately responsible for the awards. I have been in the recruitment industry for 19 years and am a Fellow of the Recruitment and Employment Confederation.
The full details of the award process and the panel of judges can be found here http://www.alljobsuk.com/awards/awards2006/Norajudges.shtml
Please feel free to email me directly should you need further information. stephen@alljobsuk.com |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: National Online Recruitment Awards |
| Author: | Josh |
| Date: | Wednesday, 23rd Aug 2006 15:33 |
| Views: | 234 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751 |
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"Interested" raises a very valid point.
It COULD be seen that the panel have a certain bias.
Even on this forum Stephen drives home the fact that alljobsuk view s1jobs for example as "good as any recruitment site I have seen, in any category, in the past 6 years" and the fact that they give it an award each year does smell??? After all, its just an OK site and it is down to the individual how you rate it!
One could also argue that a large site chucking money at advertising on alljobsuk COULD also have an advantage over sites that dont subscribe to alljobsuk??.
As for Dan on the panel, i would agree that i cant see how he couldnt be influenced by own experience and his "best" paying customers - i agree with "Interested" on this issue.
In alljobuks defence, at least having Louise and Tom on the panel restores some credability but the bottom line as i see it is that the only way that this award would be worth anything is if 100% of the panel were from a totally unbiased background.
I cant see how any award can be worth anything if the judges are easily influenced.
Josh
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: National Online Recruitment Awards |
| Author: | interested |
| Date: | Wednesday, 23rd Aug 2006 15:46 |
| Views: | 241 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751 |
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So all in all the people who are going to be on the panel except Tom do have a direct involvement with job board such as generate revenue from them or use them to some effect within their own organisation
Let me explain
Alljobsuk generate revenue from advertising on the site (Justengineers.net) is there at the moment and they have won 2 times before looks like they are pushing the awards and you are pushing them as per the other comments!
Dan and broadbean generate revenue from charging job boards to integrate and am sure they have there preferred boards and have information on number of jobs posted, application being made that candidates don't have
uk recruiter also advertise for a number of job boards and also generate revenue from advertising for job boards and recruitment agencies that way and the same could be said for the recruitment consultant magazine
Last year it was Enhance Media who also have relationships with job boards and generate revenue from them in Noras
What i am trying to say is that you all generate revenue from job boards with only tom who does not have direct contacts or this does not have a direct impact on his future business.
I think most people would not be happy with such a panel for the above reasons and would also not find the results creditable.
Food for thought |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: National Online Recruitment Awards |
| Author: | Stephen |
| Date: | Wednesday, 23rd Aug 2006 15:46 |
| Views: | 251 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751 |
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Hi Josh
I have an ever-evolving opinion on every jobsite I view, and I see them all. I am only one of the panel, and have yet to judge any sites this year. The success of S1Jobs in the past has certainly set a high bar for others to aim at, but if you believe that other sites should have won that award in the past, then I'd like to see them.
S1Jobs have no commercial connection with me or AlljobsUK.com. There is no correlation between Finalists, Winners, and those who advertise on the website. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: National Online Recruitment Awards |
| Author: | Stephen |
| Date: | Wednesday, 23rd Aug 2006 15:54 |
| Views: | 236 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751 |
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"Interested"
If you're interested in conspiracy theories, then I am interested why you don't state your name or email addres in your post?
As chairman of the judging panel, I can absolutely and irrefutably assure you of the absence of bias in any form in the awards process. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: National Online Recruitment Awards |
| Author: | Don McIntosh |
| Date: | Thursday, 24th Aug 2006 10:51 |
| Views: | 255 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751 |
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I have been a judge in previous years - a task which is time consuming and does not result in extravagant awards dinners or great accolades.
Whilst I have run both recruitment agencies and job boards, at the time of judging I had no links to job boards of any type - we provide erecruitment systems to corporate employers.
The scoring process is very well run by Stephen with annual changes in the judging panel and I saw no bias in the scores from my fellow judges - the best entrants won!
I take exception to having my integrity challenged by people who hide behind anonimity - if there is an issue be confident enough to declare yourself so that we can have an open debate.
I have been involved in the online industry since 1999 - I judged these awards and am involved in the ORMC because I want all of this industry to grow. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: National Online Recruitment Awards |
| Author: | James Ash |
| Date: | Wednesday, 30th Aug 2006 19:13 |
| Views: | 229 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751 |
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In my opinion the NORAS Awards are nothing more than an in-house back slapping exercise intended to promote - 1 the alljobs site and 2 the same names (all jobs customer base) year in year out.
"Isn't your site just wondeful!! oh and as you are such a winner would you like an increased presence on Alljobs with that award sir????" oh suits you!! oh sir suits us both actually!!
Made me laugh out loud when the job board owner Craig denied spamming his candidate base for votes, but said we "sent a mail and a small link asking for our members to support us"
Thats OK - after all it was just a small link - a tiny link - a link so small they hardly noticed it - a miniscule link - is a small link not spam then?
James
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: National Online Recruitment Awards |
| Author: | Craig Bines |
| Date: | Thursday, 31st Aug 2006 09:28 |
| Views: | 233 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751 |
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James,
From your responce you dont even understand what spam is or otherwise you would have understood that when our candidates opt in to recieve jobs by email, newsletters, and so on this is when we promote the link and as so the candidates have requested this information and is not spam.
And for what its worth jobsgroup or our sites have never paid for advertising on the alljobs website yet we still get promoted as the site is designed to promote the very best sites within uk online recruitment.
Regards
Craig |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: National Online Recruitment Awards |
| Author: | Phil Wright |
| Date: | Thursday, 31st Aug 2006 09:56 |
| Views: | 242 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751 |
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Right on, James Ash - couldn't have put it better myself...
As a Post Scriptum... Might I point out the correct plural abbreviation of would be N.O.R.A.s or NORAs - the S should not be capital as it is not part of the original being made plural (and needs to be differentiated from the NORAS - National Online Recruitment Audience Survey)... nor should there be an apostrophe - the constant misuse in CV's, NORA's, A-level's etc only goes to add weight to the arguments of pedants like me who complain that examination standards are clearly slipping! ;@) |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: National Online Recruitment Awards |
| Author: | RichC |
| Date: | Thursday, 31st Aug 2006 11:00 |
| Views: | 224 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751 |
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Craig,
Nice one, securing free advertising on alljobs, fair play to you, nice work if you can get it!!
You have a very nice home page featured site advert from them, not to mention the page rank 6 backlink!, you feature top of the engineering sites section and also towards the top of the best job sites list and to top it you have a massive 5 gold shiny stars awarded!! - They obviously do like you :)
Meanwhile, our own site is banished to about position 27 on the general vacancies page as a text only link which I think was from about three years ago and has never been updated. I think they awarded us just three stars to boot back then, so we are obviously not in favour with them! - we did ask if our logo could be added a while back and I cant remember the cost now but they certainly were not prepared to do it for free that’s for certain.
Have to complement you Craig on your negotiating skills with this one, perhaps if Stephen is reading this he might be prepared to offer us a free link to “Redgoldfish Jobs” on the home page, logo upload and a listing on the top sites section – “If you don’t ask you don’t get”, or is it “Those that ask, don’t get” !
Kind Regards
Rich |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: National Online Recruitment Awards |
| Author: | Stephen |
| Date: | Friday, 1st Sep 2006 11:22 |
| Views: | 230 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=2751 |
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I'd like to point out that no site that advertises on AlljobsUK.com holds any sway whatsoever in the National Online Recruitment Awards. Sites who do and don't advertise, have won in equal measure.
Other than seeing the best sites win each year, I have no interest in ensuring any particular site does well in the awards. I am only one of six judges on the judging panel.
Much as I dislike pandering to conspiracy theorists, I welcome suggestions on how the process for the awards for next year can be improved. Any credible suggestions for the judging panel would also be considered.
The essence of this discussion is to do with the credibility of the National Online Recruitment Awards, and the accusation that those who advertise on AlljobsUK.com have an advantage in being considered as finalists and winners. I can absolutely refute this and this is demonstrated by the independent nature of the judging panel.
I can say that all previous winners, and to an extent finalists, are displayed more prominently on our site, along with a graphic showing when they won.
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